Games:
Manhunt 2
Tanya Byron: Why didn’t you like it?
SPOnG: I found it too violent, ironically! [laughs nervously]
Tanya Byron: What you mean like sadistically violent, without a moral context of any kind?
SPOnG: [treading carefully now] Errr, no…
Tanya Byron: Because it’s just about butchery isn’t it?
SPOnG: No, not ‘just’ about that, I think that’s where the misunderstanding lies [with that game] I’m just not a fan of horror games or movies. I just found it boring, I suppose.
Tanya Byron: But you found it too violent you said, as well?
SPOnG: I found the violence [pause]…it’s a difficult one this… I suppose when I say I found it too violent, I mean in a way in which the violence didn’t entertain me in any way. Just in the same way as if I watch violence movies like SAW or Hostel… I don’t find them entertaining, I just find them a bit off-putting. But…
SPOnG: Exactly! I strongly disagree with the BBFC banning Manhunt 2, I don’t think that it is worse in any way than those movies I mentioned. That’s a common opinion held amongst many, if not most, gamers out there.
Tanya Byron: Well, my review is not about making any kind of moral pronouncements, although I do think that it is important to look at the desensitisation to violence. And I’m not saying that is to do with videogames in any way more than it is to do with films, but the more violent images that are around… I think it does desensitise society to it and we need to think about that.
But my review is not saying anything about whether or not what was done with Manhunt 2 is a good or bad thing. I think that is what was done and I think that is a subjective issue and this review is not about my personal opinions about things. This review is about me gathering evidence – looking at what the consumer evidence says, what the academic evidence says, what the industry evidence says and also what the evidence is coming from children and young people and gamers and parents. This is about pulling all those things together. Things like the Manhunt 2 conversation could sidetrack this review. And I personally don’t think it’s a helpful conversation to be having [in the context of the review]. It’s one of those tangents that can take you off to somewhere where you lose the point and focus…
Tanya Byron: Also what we know is that, as I said earlier, the higher you build walls the more some children will want to climb them. But there are lots of issues here and I think there is an issue also about having some kind of prevailing moral compass. And I am getting a lot of evidence from some people who are concerned that the videogames industry may use violence in certain ways to increase profits. And as a society there are some people who really don’t like that.
This is about trying to balance all the views, this is not about me, Tanya Byron, saying ‘this is what I think’, this is about looking at where we are now, at where the technology is going and saying ‘what do we need to do?’
Games:
Manhunt 2
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Comments
tyrion 26 Oct 2007 17:56
1/11
She does seem to ave a fairly balanced view of this review. Let's hope the people who receive her recommendations are similarly balanced!
config 26 Oct 2007 20:06
2/11
I've seen a few of her "House of Tiny Tearaways" - I'm a parent, so I'm interested to see how bad it can get with kids (and to tackle fixing the problem)
The most encouraging thing about the show (in the context of games/internet content and kids) is that 9 times out of 10, when these kids go off the rails it's the parents that are to blame.
I'm in no doubt that this is the case with kids playing mature games. Tanya's suggestion that the rating system is confusing is interesting, though I'm more inclined to believe that many parents just don't care, at best because they still think games are aimed at kids, at worst because they don't give a fsck
The most encouraging thing about the show (in the context of games/internet content and kids) is that 9 times out of 10, when these kids go off the rails it's the parents that are to blame.
I'm in no doubt that this is the case with kids playing mature games. Tanya's suggestion that the rating system is confusing is interesting, though I'm more inclined to believe that many parents just don't care, at best because they still think games are aimed at kids, at worst because they don't give a fsck
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tyrion 27 Oct 2007 11:45
3/11
config wrote:
Tanya's suggestion that the rating system is confusing is interesting, though I'm more inclined to believe that many parents just don't care, at best because they still think games are aimed at kids, at worst because they don't give a fsck
Well, we both know someone who was of the opinion that they were a difficulty rating, not a content rating. And she's a loving, caring mother.
Her: "He's so smart, he's on to the 18 games already and he's only 13!"
Me: "Umm, you do know that's a content rating like on DVDs?"
Her: "What?!?!?"
When you think about it, it's not too strange a conclusion to come to, all the time they have been buying entertainment for their kids, the toys, board games, jigsaws and whatever are rated by age on difficulty or small parts. Now videogames are rated on content and age suitability? It's a bit of a leap if you don't realise.
Of course there are those parents who think "He's quiet, I don't care what he's watching." They are the ones who should be slapped with a £5K fine, and not just for giving age-inappropriate games to their kids.
hollywooda 28 Oct 2007 01:05
4/11
i would.... non violently....of course..hee hee....
zoydwheeler 28 Oct 2007 09:52
5/11
Thanks for that contribution there! Really enlightening...
hollywooda 28 Oct 2007 11:14
6/11
sorry, i didnt think of those people out there without a sense of humor, its called a little joke, look it up....
zoydwheeler 28 Oct 2007 11:35
7/11
It's just a s**t and old joke, is all. And, for the record, probably would.
hollywooda 29 Oct 2007 11:59
8/11
But!...you said?... whatever.....
(yer, i do like a Milf)
(yer, i do like a Milf)
Andronix 30 Oct 2007 22:39
9/11
Well done Spong for a genuine and interesting exclusive.
So much gamer news is recycled PR crap. This was a good interview that asked some pertinent questions.
I remember feeling sick of hearing Tanya's name because there was a few weeks when BBC Three seemed to be showing her programme non-stop.Anyway she sounds fairly balanced. She says her kids play games.
From what she said, It may be that she just has a universal age rating system (BBFC) and tries to make parents more aware of their responsibilities. Although games for adults might no longer be called games?!
well done.
Andronix
Playthree.net
So much gamer news is recycled PR crap. This was a good interview that asked some pertinent questions.
I remember feeling sick of hearing Tanya's name because there was a few weeks when BBC Three seemed to be showing her programme non-stop.Anyway she sounds fairly balanced. She says her kids play games.
From what she said, It may be that she just has a universal age rating system (BBFC) and tries to make parents more aware of their responsibilities. Although games for adults might no longer be called games?!
well done.
Andronix
Playthree.net
Peej 6 Nov 2007 14:05
10/11
Nice to see Dr Byron putting her side of things and not being misquoted and reported as head nanny in a nanny state looking to impose harsh restrictions on the games industry.
Time and time again the interview mentioned the most important point in all this, that responsibility lies with parents to actually make sure that they know and understand what games are about, how the ratings work, and if need be, tell their kids a firm "no" when it comes to them wanting to play games or access internet sites that are unsuitable for their age group.
With consoles (the 360 in particular) soon being patched to limit time children spend playing games, it does at least look like the industry is trying to do its bit. The weak links in all of this are still largely the parents.
pjmaybe - allaboutthegames.net
Time and time again the interview mentioned the most important point in all this, that responsibility lies with parents to actually make sure that they know and understand what games are about, how the ratings work, and if need be, tell their kids a firm "no" when it comes to them wanting to play games or access internet sites that are unsuitable for their age group.
With consoles (the 360 in particular) soon being patched to limit time children spend playing games, it does at least look like the industry is trying to do its bit. The weak links in all of this are still largely the parents.
pjmaybe - allaboutthegames.net
reddawn 28 Nov 2007 21:02
11/11
Could all this just be a front? It sounds mightily political to me. Looking into my crystal ball I see little positive result. Besides what can England do, when the virtual world is global?
The Byron chick could be well cast as a sorcerer's apprentice in a modern video game!
Pretty face, media savvy, the instrument of some gov PR initiative or other, (echoes of "Yes Minister") and some hidden agenda ... somewhere? Where I wonder? Who wants to do what and to whom? Could there be scope for some kind of tax? A sinecure in the shape of an online video Game Tsar?
It would be interesting to take a closer look?
The risk is not that dangerous games exist but rather that upstart initiatives irrupt, run out of control and wind up threatening or actually damaging fundamental liberties.
The online world is a new model, using outdated tools to try to measure it is an anachronism. The phenomenon is too young, it needs to evolve, and that may well be one of the key findings of Doc Byron's review. It is like trying to control the telephone! Daft! It is up to parents. She might usefully set up compulsory evening courses for recalcitrant parents. Now there's a thought!
The Byron chick could be well cast as a sorcerer's apprentice in a modern video game!
Pretty face, media savvy, the instrument of some gov PR initiative or other, (echoes of "Yes Minister") and some hidden agenda ... somewhere? Where I wonder? Who wants to do what and to whom? Could there be scope for some kind of tax? A sinecure in the shape of an online video Game Tsar?
It would be interesting to take a closer look?
The risk is not that dangerous games exist but rather that upstart initiatives irrupt, run out of control and wind up threatening or actually damaging fundamental liberties.
The online world is a new model, using outdated tools to try to measure it is an anachronism. The phenomenon is too young, it needs to evolve, and that may well be one of the key findings of Doc Byron's review. It is like trying to control the telephone! Daft! It is up to parents. She might usefully set up compulsory evening courses for recalcitrant parents. Now there's a thought!